In this episode of the MWI Podcast, MWI’s John Amble is joined by James Verini. He is an award-winning journalist who has reported from all over the world—including a series of articles for National Geographic and the New York Times Magazine about ISIS in Iraq. He accompanied Iraqi security forces during the brutal fight to retake Mosul from ISIS fighters.

That’s the subject of his new book, They Will Have to Die Now: Mosul and the Fall of the Caliphate. In the discussion you’ll hear in this episode, he talks about his experiences reporting from the site of some of the most violent urban conflict the world has seen in decades. He also offers some very important context about Mosul, its people, and its history—all of which is crucial not only to make sense of that conflict, but also as we begin to think about the city’s recovery and its future.

You can listen to the full episode below. And if you aren’t already subscribed to the MWI Podcast, be sure to find it on Apple PodcastsStitcher, or your favorite podcast app so you don’t miss an episode!


Image credit: Staff Sgt. Jason Hull, US Army