What is the human domain of warfare, and will it be more or less relevant in great power competition? Who should own it? What does it take to change how the Department of Defense thinks about war?

In Episode 10 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast, Nick Lopez and Kyle Atwell dig into these questions and more with retired Brig. Gen. Kim Field and Dr. Sue Bryant. The conversation is motivated by the book Military Strategy in the 21st Century: People, Connectivity, and Competition, which Dr. Bryant coauthored along with retired Lt. Gen. Charlie Cleveland, Dr. Benjamin Jensen, and Lt. Col. Arnel David. The conversation goes beyond discussing what the human domain of warfare is, as the guests reveal how policy changes are considered within the Defense Department bureaucracy based on their experiences.

Dr. Bryant is the executive director at Strategic Education International. She also teaches grand strategy and military history at Georgetown University and defense policymaking at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies. She is a retired colonel with twenty-eight years of active duty service in the Army. Dr. Bryant has a master’s degree in international relations from Yale University, a master’s degree in Operational Planning from Marine Corps University’s School of Advanced Warfighting, and a doctorate in liberal studies from Georgetown University.

Brig. Gen. Field is a professor and executive director of the Albritton Center for Grand Strategy at the Bush School of Government and Public Service. She served three tours of duty in Afghanistan, along with tours in Iraq and Somalia. After retirement, she served as the deputy assistant secretary in the State Department’s Bureau of Conflict and Stabilization Operations. She has master’s degrees from the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University and the US Army War College.

The Irregular Warfare Podcast is a collaboration between the Modern War Institute and Princeton University’s Empirical Studies of Conflict Project. You can listen to the full episode below, and you can find it and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, TuneIn, or your favorite podcast app. And be sure to follow the podcast on Twitter!

Image credit: Lisa Ferdinando, DoD