In this episode of the MWI Podcast, MWI’s John Amble is joined by James Verini. He is an award-winning journalist who has reported from all over the world—including a series of articles for National Geographic and the New York Times Magazine about ISIS in Iraq. He accompanied Iraqi security forces during the brutal fight to retake Mosul from ISIS fighters and is the author of the book They Will Have to Die Now: Mosul and the Fall of the Caliphate.

The discussion not only describes some of the most violent urban conflict the world has seen in decades, but also offers important context about Mosul, its people, and its history—all of which is crucial to make sense of urban conflict. As Verini describes, Mosul also shows how urban conflict’s destructive nature and political instability interact with one another in important ways. That is equally true in other sites of recent urban conflict, including during the outbreak of fighting in recent weeks between Israel and Hamas in Gaza City.

You can listen to the full episode below. And if you aren’t already subscribed to the MWI Podcast, be sure to find it on Apple PodcastsStitcher, or your favorite podcast app so you don’t miss an episode!

Note: This episode was originally released in September 2019.

Image credit: Staff Sgt. Jason Hull, US Army